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 Post subject: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:43 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:31 pm
Ok, about to embark on my first couple customizing projects. I've been reading through the wiki guide and several posts about painting and I'm a little overwhelmed. I'm going to go with Testers Model Masters. I have a few questions before I jump in just to clarify all the info I've been reading. My first two planned 25th/Modern projects involve painting a cast head and helmet/mask for a Ripcord custom. The second is painting the web gear and some spots on a body for a MMS Hawk custom.

My questions:

#1 Enamal or Acrylic? It sounds like enamal is harder to work with but is more durable. I'd rather go with more durable. Is there a big difference?

#2 I've seen mention of dying, stripping original paint and priming. If I'm painting something a different color than it was originally, what should I be doing to get the best results? I'm guessing it's not as easy as just painting over the original. In the case, of a small accent like a pouch or holster on a body that I am not touching the rest of, would that be just a paint-over?

#3 For painting the more flexible plastic of something like web gear (I want to paint the standard web gear that the 25th comic pack Hawk came with, silver) It seems to me just painting it with a brush might not work given how flexible the plastic is - is there a special method for painting more flexible plastic like that?

#4 An airbrush or regular brushes? I have never used an airbrush before. I know they can be pricy but I'd pick one up if it was worth it. Can your typical airbrush handle smaller details? My first couple projects don't involve painting large areas - just a couple heads and various details on a base body that otherwise won't be touched.

#5 A more specific question for a testers user. Any suggestions for the closest match to the green used for the 25th Zap or Dollar General Duke bodies? That will be my base body for Hawk and most of the rest of my 1982 line-up customs when I get to them.

Thanks! I appreciate it!


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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:00 am 
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#1 Acrylic. Enamel has drying issues with with some types of plastics. I used it once, the paint remained tacky forever, I will never use it again.

#2 I usually just paint over the old color with the new color, but if its light over dark and the paint doesn't cover well, like yellow or orange, I will "primer" with white first.

#3 brushes work fine on web gear, Its what I use. Just make sure to allow it to cure and be carful when putting it on the figure.

#4 I use regular brushes that I buy at WalMart in 5 packs for a few bucks

#5 I don't use testors

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 1:35 pm 
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Just my preferences:

1: Always acrylic. I use a mixture of Vallejo and Citadel/Games Workshop paints. The Vallejo paint has an extensive range of shades, even breaking the list down into categories and comes in dropper bottles and is great for use with a palette, especially giving good control for mixing. GW for metallics almost every time. The silver is particularly good, but I prefer Vallejo for the gold. I finish off with a matt varnish spray and then highlight anywhere necessay with satin or gloss varnish.

2: Personally, I don't like Rit Dye. I know a lot of people on here swear by it, but I remain unimpressed with the results. I use Games Workshop Skull White and Chaos Black primers in spray cans. Had some really good results with them. MEans repainting everything I can't remove from the figure, but that is not a problem for me.

3: I will usually prime first with matt (see above) and then use a medium or large soft brush, usually a sable or equivalent. Use a small amount of paint on the brush and build up in layers if necessary.

4: Prefer a brush. I have a set ranging from 10/0 through 0 to #4. I use sable or equivalent and replace as soon as the bristles start to separate.

5: Never used Testors (see annswer #1)

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:12 pm 
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1. I know one guy who used to post who swore by enamel paint, but only when he primed the figure really really well with acrylic paint first. But honestly, I think you want to avoid it. Not only is it likely to ruin the figure, but it also will have a glossier finish most of the time.

2. I used to use RIT Dye all the time. It's a nice start to when the base figure isn't close enough to the end color you are looking for. HOWEVER, you can obviously only dye something darker. You can't lighten the base color with anything other than paint.

ALSO - as has been posted in this section, RIT dye bought today from the store is not the same as RIT dye from even a year or so ago. I don't think it works the same, if at all.

IF you really get into this, you're going to want to stock up on some cheap fodder lots from ebay, to be honest. It's much easier to find a shoulder joint that is the right color than to paint or even dye a shoulder joint and expect it to not chip.

3. Which brings us to three. a quality paint will hold up surprisingly well on the body and head of a figure, so long as it's not in a high friction area. So just brushing on the paint is usually going to be ok (except for joints as referenced above). Joints can be done this way too, but it takes a lot of prep work and sanding to increase the chance of it staying put.

Like Dusty said, if you're doing a drastic color change, or if you're turning a bunch of mis-matched colors into one, you might want to prime. Some folks spray prime, but testors also has a brush on type. I've used each, but I also try to stay close to the base piece color when possible.

4. I actually think brush on Testors Model Mastor Acryl will do you better than an airbrush most of the time. I would use an airbrush, if it all, for detailed shading, and the like. Cap from here uses it a lot on skin tones, for example. I don't even own one myself, to be honest.

5. I think with Testors, you might have to mix a couple shades to get the end result you're looking for. I love the Olive Drab Green for basic military colors, but it's not quite what you want. Also, for reference, I use all brands of paint, even the cheap stuff, and mix together what I need quite frequently.

Last tips:
6. Thin out the paint before you put it on the figure. Multiple thin coats is so ridiculously better than one thick coat, it's the difference between night and day.

7. For the cast head, rinse it off with warm soapy water before you paint it. Also, if there's any one thing I'd prime if I were you, it's that. Sometimes the paint out of the jar has a hard time bonding to a cast item.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Definitely acrylics. For nearly every reason mentioned. Though to be fair, most of the older GIJOE figures like RAH were more of a polystyrene(torso and legs) which is what your model planes and ships were made from, and these handle enamels just fine. Especially when primed with a flat black or flat white first. But acrylics are flexible, and that is more important than anything.

Depends on the item (as you said, embellishing on a small detail and leaving the rest is a good example) but even if I do not prime, which I do for nearly everthing, I will follow the standard model builder's creedo of washing everything first in mild soapy water and removing anything that may impede a good paint adhering, such as the oils in a fingerprint.

Given acrylics' flexible nature, they are just fine for very flexible items. If sealing, try and find an acrylic sealer as well.

Personally I use both. I use an airbrush for priming and coloring bodies (though as a rule I hate painting and prefer to use the original plastic as my customs' base even it that means stripping away the manufacturer's paint) and a selection of flat and pointed 10/0 brushes and smaller for detail work. When I find a brush, even a tiny guage is too large, I will enthusiastically use the Sakura Pigma Micron permanent markers which come as tiny as .005. Like a human hair tiny. Airbrushes, though pricey are great for evening fleshtones, and better when you are placing a detail that needs to be mildly gradient. I also like their ability to apply the paint in micro layers and most of the paints are permanent and then some. There are even airbrush paints formulated for auto industry plastics which though pricey, are fantastic. Even Testor's Model Masters, which can be thick as syrup from the bottle, can be air applied when thinned with a nice binder like an acrylic ink, which I prefer over thinning with water or alcohol.

Can't help you with the last one. Nearly all the Testors I have are used for arcane fleshtones (otherwordly, fantasy, leather, etc.) and I mix these with Daler and Rowney acrylic inks to get what I am looking for.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 10:20 am
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I suggest for all cast items that they get a bath in either acetone or 91% alcohol before paint. If you do that, it should take care of any residual chemicals that might still be present, and allow the paint to adhere to the resin plastics as good as it ever will be able to.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:09 am 
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Hairy Llama
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A tip I always tell everybody is to not be afraid of super glue! New to the hobby or if you've been around a while. I always coat the joints to help stop chipping. With enough practice, you can get to where you will rarely have chipping. Always take the figure apart, paint your detailing and color on the part, then use a tissue and paint/swab super glue quickly of the dry paint. Practice before attempting. Get something like a Lanard figure or something on clearance. It's well worth investigating to add this to your abilities. I hate the idea of sanding joints so they don't rub or painting a figure and watching it chip in the joints.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:27 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 1:21 am
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Going along with what J-Man wrote, I've heard of some guys dipping their brush in Mop'n'Glow floor polish then into the paint and that ads some hardening to the paint. Haven't tried it myself and this is the first I've heard of J_Man's super glue thing. I may give that a try.

I've found with the enamel that it stays sticky. Acrylics are the way to go, I've used Testor's, Apple Barrel and one other that I can't think of the name right now, same size and shape of Apple Barrel though.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:21 am 
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The thing with the wiki is that it is more like suggestions then a start to finish "how to". There is no one way to skin a cat. nothing is universally true for everybody. For example, most people will tell you to steer clear of enamels. While that is mostly true, especially for beginners, they do have their place in the hobby. Typically you need the experience to know when you can break off from the traditional way and improv. Even Model Masters paint come in both Enamel and Acryl. So be careful.

When to do dye, prime, or just brush on depends a lot on A) what you plan to do with the custom afterward and B) the original color of the plastic versus what color you want it to be. If it is just going on a shelf and will be treated as an art piece with little to no handling, just brush it on. If you want a production level, playable toy afterwards that you can pose without fear of chipping or scratching, then you will want to sand down all the articulation friction areas, prime, paint, and seal with a matte clear coat.

Using an airbrush for customs requires both a financial and time commitment I wouldn't recommend to anyone starting out unless you already use it for another hobby or job. until you know you enjoy customizing I wouldn't get into it.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:29 pm 
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Ripe with kibble / Bojack Strobman
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:19 am
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To you guys that painted with enamels or other paints that remain tacky: Paint over your paint with mod podge (matte finish) -- it solves the tacky issue by putting a coat of clear on top of it -

I've done this to my own failed paint experiments.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:31 pm
This is all really helpful. Thanks to everyone who put in their two cents. I feel like I finally have some direction on where to start. This is an awesome community!


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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:19 am
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jedimarvin wrote:
This is all really helpful. Thanks to everyone who put in their two cents. I feel like I finally have some direction on where to start. This is an awesome community!


Exactly what I thought when I first joined the site back in 2005, and I still think so.

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 6:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:13 am
Great tips here!

I've been using citadel and vallejo paint. And sometime I get tackiness. Then I heard about curing the paint so I started using a blow dryer. But does anyone do this? Is this the best way to cure? Should I warm the plastic BEFORE I paint or paint the part first then blow dry so it dries into the pores?

thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:03 pm 
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caliviper wrote:
Great tips here!

I've been using citadel and vallejo paint. And sometime I get tackiness. Then I heard about curing the paint so I started using a blow dryer. But does anyone do this? Is this the best way to cure? Should I warm the plastic BEFORE I paint or paint the part first then blow dry so it dries into the pores?

thanks!


The dryer is a good idea to cure the paint.

The heating the plastic first is not so much a good idea. It'll expand the plastic, and so when it contracts you'll get cracking and flaking. Not sure if this is the case with oilier paints, but it's true of Citadel. The best way to deal with citadel is super thin coats that dry almost instantly. If you can get your hands on the painting video they put out, do that. It's the most educational watching paint dry video you'll ever see.

On citadel though, I swear by their new premixed washes. These things are flat out awesome. I generally use too much, but with a light hand, I find that it's the easiest way to get production looking figures with an extra measure of durability.

- R

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 Post subject: Re: First time painting - a couple questions
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 1:21 pm 
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Thanks raptor. I got the Citadal arocoat (sp?) to put a clear layer on the plastic. So far it looks like its stopping shiping but I don't like that it makes things like faces shiny. Does anyone use a clear paint to add a protective layer that doesn't add a shine?


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